1
00:00:01,239 --> 00:00:03,440
Votes in favour of the proposal

2
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000
Downloaded from
YTS.BZ

3
00:00:03,559 --> 00:00:05,879
one million
two hundred and one thousand...

4
00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:07,199
(CROWD CHEERS)

5
00:00:07,319 --> 00:00:10,000
(WHISTLES BLOWING)

6
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000
Compliments to Feromoon:
https://fero.tips and feromoon.info

7
00:00:10,120 --> 00:00:11,680
'On 23rd May 2015,

8
00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:13,839
'I brought my children here
to Dublin Castle

9
00:00:13,959 --> 00:00:16,919
'to be a part of something
extraordinary.

10
00:00:18,599 --> 00:00:21,160
'Ireland becoming
the first country in the world

11
00:00:21,279 --> 00:00:24,360
'to bring in marriage equality
by popular vote.'

12
00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,319
I do believe history has been made
today.

13
00:00:28,919 --> 00:00:31,559
We have taken a great journey.

14
00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:33,879
Ireland has definitely grown up.

15
00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,599
'Charlie Bird was there
for the launch of the "Yes" campaign.

16
00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:40,160
'The former newsman became an ally.

17
00:00:40,279 --> 00:00:41,720
'Chairing campaign meetings,

18
00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,239
he heard ordinary people tell
extraordinary stories

19
00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,199
'and decided to record them.'

20
00:00:47,319 --> 00:00:48,919
I interviewed 80 people for this
book.

21
00:00:50,160 --> 00:00:53,519
I went into their homes
and I sat down with them.

22
00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,760
And these people told me
their most intimate stories.

23
00:00:58,879 --> 00:01:01,000
COLIN: 'Charlie had the idea that
his interviews

24
00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:02,519
could also become a play,

25
00:01:02,639 --> 00:01:04,199
'so he brought them to me.'

26
00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,639
Gay politics matters to me,
and it is hard.

27
00:01:08,239 --> 00:01:11,319
'He was right, and we took the play
around the country.'

28
00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,080
CHARLIE: I am so happy and proud

29
00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,599
of what we have achieved
collectively.

30
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,879
Wherever I end up, I will always be
proud of A Day in May.

31
00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,199
What I want is this play
to be there forever.

32
00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:24,199
That in ten, 20, 30 years' time,

33
00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:26,480
amateur dramatic societies
any place in the country

34
00:01:26,599 --> 00:01:29,879
will be able to pick up this play
and they'll be able to celebrate.

35
00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,680
'A year after Charlie's passing,
his wish is coming true

36
00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,000
'with a production of the play by
students

37
00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,639
at TU Dublin marking the
anniversary.'

38
00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,040
'But the context for the play
has changed.'

39
00:01:49,319 --> 00:01:52,279
Things have got quite nasty
over the last couple of years.

40
00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,120
NEW SPEAKER: You look at what's
happening in terms of backlash

41
00:01:55,239 --> 00:01:57,599
to equality, diversity, inclusion,
it's horrendous.

42
00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,360
'A decade on,
the world feels more divided.

43
00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:03,720
'Politics today is often toxic.

44
00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:06,720
'Earlier wins have provoked a
backlash,

45
00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:08,519
particularly against trans people.'

46
00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:11,279
Minorities are being targeted.

47
00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,120
There are parts of Europe
where rights are being removed.

48
00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,959
'So, I want to revisit the play
and the referendum.

49
00:02:18,599 --> 00:02:21,000
'I want to know how that result
was delivered.

50
00:02:21,879 --> 00:02:25,400
'And what we can take from that
to help us with our politics today.'

51
00:02:25,519 --> 00:02:28,199
That's you there ten years ago.
Oh, my God! I can't believe...

52
00:02:28,319 --> 00:02:31,239
'I want to know how life has been
for Charlie's interviewees.

53
00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,519
'And whether they feel it has
delivered

54
00:02:34,559 --> 00:02:37,440
on the promise of that day in May.'

55
00:02:37,559 --> 00:02:38,760
There you are.

56
00:02:50,239 --> 00:02:52,239
Will we be faced with requests

57
00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,440
that homosexuals
should be allowed to marry?

58
00:02:55,559 --> 00:02:57,040
(UPROAR)

59
00:02:58,879 --> 00:03:03,279
I remember being seven and knowing
that something was different.

60
00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,839
I saw nothing about being gay
anywhere.

61
00:03:06,959 --> 00:03:09,839
Can we just do that again to see
if we can get that a little sharper?

62
00:03:09,959 --> 00:03:11,919
'The play really takes you on a
journey.'

63
00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:13,680
1988...

64
00:03:14,519 --> 00:03:16,319
'Even when you're in the ensemble'

65
00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:17,959
and you're acting, like,

66
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,160
we're genuinely feeling
quite a lot of things in the room.

67
00:03:20,279 --> 00:03:22,720
What are we going to call this?
Marriage Equality Now.

68
00:03:22,839 --> 00:03:25,680
That's a working title at least.
What's next?

69
00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:27,440
'I was in 5th class.'

70
00:03:27,559 --> 00:03:29,360
I think I just remember seeing all
the signs

71
00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,000
and I come from a very small town,

72
00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,239
so there was a lot of "No" signs.

73
00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:36,839
There was a lot of "No" people
around.

74
00:03:36,959 --> 00:03:40,599
You and Kyle are just right behind.
OK.

75
00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:42,480
'I'm 28 now, so...'

76
00:03:42,599 --> 00:03:45,080
ten years ago, I went 18 in the
April,

77
00:03:45,199 --> 00:03:48,279
and I voted in the referendum that
month.

78
00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,599
Wow!
Full circle moment.

79
00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:52,760
So, it was your first vote?
My first vote.

80
00:03:52,879 --> 00:03:57,519
The Constitutional Convention has
voted overwhelmingly in favour

81
00:03:57,639 --> 00:04:00,160
of extending marriage rights
to same-sex couples...

82
00:04:00,319 --> 00:04:03,639
To me, it was simple, it was walking
five minutes down the road,

83
00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,080
putting a tick on a piece of paper.

84
00:04:06,199 --> 00:04:08,080
But that carried so much power.

85
00:04:08,199 --> 00:04:10,239
People aren't going from "Yes" to
"No".

86
00:04:10,279 --> 00:04:12,040
They're going from "Yes" to
"Don't Know".

87
00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,480
When they're touching in with the
feelings of these characters...

88
00:04:14,599 --> 00:04:16,680
We want equality!
Yes!

89
00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,879
'..they have a really sharp sense
of social justice.'

90
00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,400
They expect more.

91
00:04:23,519 --> 00:04:26,239
We're also here to commemorate
and agitate...

92
00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:28,040
'When it was written,'

93
00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:29,959
it was about a marking and a
celebration,

94
00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,080
so there's a joy in that it
contains the pain of the past,

95
00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,279
but there's an exuberance and a joy.

96
00:04:37,599 --> 00:04:40,440
'I think the difference in adjusting
it for today,

97
00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,440
ten years later, is to say...'

98
00:04:42,559 --> 00:04:44,000
(SIGHS)

99
00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,080
..that joy has been tarnished.

100
00:04:47,199 --> 00:04:49,199
Do you still feel as hopeful?

101
00:04:50,319 --> 00:04:51,519
Now? Yeah?

102
00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:54,919
No.

103
00:04:55,639 --> 00:04:57,800
All that and we still might lose.

104
00:04:57,919 --> 00:04:59,599
It's time to fight back.

105
00:05:00,559 --> 00:05:03,239
It's time to stop pleading for
crumbs

106
00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:04,440
from the straight man's table...

107
00:05:04,559 --> 00:05:06,919
'Has the rehearsing of the play
been a forum'

108
00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:08,720
for discussions around these issues?

109
00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,120
Definitely, in that what
we need to talk about today,

110
00:05:12,239 --> 00:05:15,720
about how there still is homophobia,
there's transphobia.

111
00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,279
Everyone knows someone
who's part of the queer community,

112
00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,720
and I think to realise that
and to show it is a normal thing,

113
00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,800
because still some people
are like, "That's just on the TV."

114
00:05:23,919 --> 00:05:26,400
But everyone knows a queer person,
you know?

115
00:05:26,519 --> 00:05:28,599
I think it's the realisation of...

116
00:05:28,639 --> 00:05:30,839
they're not others out there,
they're me and mine.

117
00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,919
'There's still so much more there to
grow.

118
00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,839
'But I also think
it's a great marker to look at'

119
00:05:38,959 --> 00:05:43,040
how we all felt back then
and how much hope there was.

120
00:05:47,519 --> 00:05:49,000
Great.
Woo!

121
00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,360
(LAUGHTER, CHATTER)

122
00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:00,800
'The long fight for gay rights
stretches back

123
00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:02,120
at least my entire lifetime.'

124
00:06:02,239 --> 00:06:04,800
RECORDING: That young man said that
the law was a reproach,

125
00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:05,919
it's a shame.

126
00:06:05,959 --> 00:06:09,040
It is, and it's also - and this is
the most important thing -

127
00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,199
a violation of fundamental human
rights.

128
00:06:12,239 --> 00:06:15,279
'Change happened more slowly
in Ireland than elsewhere.'

129
00:06:16,639 --> 00:06:18,959
REPORTER: At midnight last night,
the Dáil passed the bill

130
00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:21,760
to decriminalise homosexual acts
by consenting adults.

131
00:06:21,879 --> 00:06:25,239
CAMPAIGNER: How can we reconcile
criminal sanctions in this area,

132
00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,040
but in which the criminal law has no
part to play?

133
00:06:28,879 --> 00:06:32,199
'And then something happened,
and Ireland became a leader.'

134
00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:34,720
CHARLIE: Two people who love one
another

135
00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,120
should have the right to get
married,

136
00:06:37,239 --> 00:06:39,239
regardless of their sexuality.

137
00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:42,599
'There wasn't just a change in
attitudes,

138
00:06:42,639 --> 00:06:45,720
but in law and in the constitution.

139
00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:49,239
'I want to know how this change
happened.

140
00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:51,519
'How was this institution,

141
00:06:51,559 --> 00:06:54,919
the Oireachtas, persuaded to support
gay marriage?

142
00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,919
'It started with one couple
and a court case.'

143
00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,120
I had met my beloved
gorgeous Anne Louise Gilligan

144
00:07:09,239 --> 00:07:10,800
in Boston College, where we studied.

145
00:07:10,919 --> 00:07:14,120
We were at the point of writing
our dissertations and she said,

146
00:07:14,239 --> 00:07:16,199
"Why don't we go to Ireland?"

147
00:07:16,319 --> 00:07:20,040
It was very much a closeted time.

148
00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,400
We had our private lives that we
shared

149
00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:23,800
with a certain group of friends

150
00:07:23,919 --> 00:07:28,599
and then, you know, just basically
didn't mention at all our identity.

151
00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,040
The change came about in early 2000

152
00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,639
when we decided to look for a legal
recognition

153
00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,559
of our lifelong partnership.

154
00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,559
We realised that, in terms of any
kind of debate

155
00:07:43,599 --> 00:07:45,879
in the public on the
issue,

156
00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:47,400
Ireland was silent.

157
00:07:47,519 --> 00:07:50,959
There's a really deep type
of discrimination going on here

158
00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:52,360
that we need to address,

159
00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,919
and we need to, I suppose, find the
courage to do so.

160
00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,239
NEW SPEAKER: It was 2004.

161
00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,279
I had been working
with Senator David Norris

162
00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:04,599
on his Civil Partnership bill,
I was a lawyer.

163
00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:08,160
Katherine Zappone and Anne Louise
Gilligan, who I knew,

164
00:08:08,279 --> 00:08:12,239
came to me then and said they would
like to launch a case.

165
00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,760
KATHERINE: We realised
that we could get married in Canada.

166
00:08:16,879 --> 00:08:19,400
So, it shifted our strategy
of our legal case

167
00:08:19,519 --> 00:08:23,559
to just simply look for a
recognition of a foreign marriage.

168
00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,360
When we got permission to take the
case,

169
00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,120
it just, honestly, you know,
it went around the world.

170
00:08:33,639 --> 00:08:37,839
I was really so overcome
that I suddenly had met somebody

171
00:08:37,959 --> 00:08:40,040
that I could know without hesitation

172
00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,279
that I could spend the rest of my
life with.

173
00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,680
IVANA: People were really so taken

174
00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,800
with their clear love
and affection for each other,

175
00:08:48,919 --> 00:08:51,519
they helped to change public
opinion.

176
00:08:51,639 --> 00:08:55,760
Our case was to become
a galvanising force of the campaign.

177
00:08:55,879 --> 00:08:57,480
It became known as the KAL case,

178
00:08:57,519 --> 00:09:01,239
K-A-L, after Katherine and Ann
Louise's initials.

179
00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,919
By the time we got to the court
case, we lost.

180
00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:05,480
REPORTER: Ms Justice Elizabeth Dunne

181
00:09:05,519 --> 00:09:07,919
said she could not accept the
couple's argument

182
00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:09,639
that marriage within the
constitution

183
00:09:09,680 --> 00:09:11,639
includes same-sex marriage.

184
00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:13,639
We lost the KAL case in December
'06,

185
00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:15,919
but the judge indicated that this
was something

186
00:09:15,959 --> 00:09:17,199
the Oireachtas should move on.

187
00:09:17,319 --> 00:09:19,000
That really paved the way for what
became

188
00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,760
the Civil Partnership Act
of 2010 ultimately,

189
00:09:21,879 --> 00:09:24,879
and it really helped
to move public opinion with us.

190
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,919
We took the case
because we believed and we requested

191
00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:32,680
that the human right to marry
is simply extended to us.

192
00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,480
KATHERINE: A few of our friends
said,

193
00:09:34,599 --> 00:09:37,400
"OK, well, we'll start at least
giving you some support."

194
00:09:37,519 --> 00:09:39,720
They called themselves
the KAL Advocacy Group.

195
00:09:39,839 --> 00:09:41,919
Then it morphed into

196
00:09:41,959 --> 00:09:45,319
establishing the organisation called
Marriage Equality.

197
00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:48,480
(CHEERS, APPLAUSE)

198
00:09:53,279 --> 00:09:54,919
The commitment to marriage equality

199
00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,440
was in the programme for government
when we went in with Labour,

200
00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:58,559
so that was very key.

201
00:09:58,680 --> 00:10:01,480
We wanted to see
"marriage equality" recognised.

202
00:10:01,599 --> 00:10:04,959
Civil partnership, which was a sort
of a different legal status,

203
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:06,000
that wasn't enough.

204
00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,360
There were members within the party

205
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,239
who themselves came out
and influenced other members.

206
00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,879
Jerry Buttimer played a very key
role.

207
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:18,120
I always felt within Fine Gael there
was a considerable number of us

208
00:10:18,239 --> 00:10:20,279
who were LGBT, who were gay.

209
00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,839
It was about all of us
bringing people to the middle.

210
00:10:23,959 --> 00:10:27,680
Fine Gael agreed to have
a Constitutional Convention set up,

211
00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,919
a convention of citizens and
legislators

212
00:10:29,959 --> 00:10:31,639
that would come together, would
debate the issues

213
00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:33,839
around marriage equality and would
recommend

214
00:10:33,959 --> 00:10:35,800
a course of action to government.

215
00:10:36,680 --> 00:10:38,800
Ladies and gentlemen,
we're about to start.

216
00:10:38,919 --> 00:10:43,319
It was very unusual in that
it was 66 randomly selected citizens

217
00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,800
and 33 politicians.

218
00:10:45,919 --> 00:10:47,519
This was a new way of doing things.

219
00:10:47,639 --> 00:10:51,080
There is no compelling data
that suggests there are negative

220
00:10:51,199 --> 00:10:52,839
or less better outcomes for children

221
00:10:52,879 --> 00:10:54,279
who are parented by same-sex
couples.

222
00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,839
There's a resistance
to significant process

223
00:10:56,959 --> 00:10:59,360
within the political system
because it's risk adverse.

224
00:11:00,239 --> 00:11:02,239
Particularly on issues where it's
being told

225
00:11:02,279 --> 00:11:04,400
from the edges of the system.

226
00:11:04,519 --> 00:11:06,519
I think on some topics that maybe

227
00:11:06,639 --> 00:11:10,279
the political system isn't quite sure
about or is a bit wary of,

228
00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:12,279
it opens up the conversation

229
00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,959
parallel to the Dáil and the Seanad,
parallel to politics.

230
00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,040
What constitutions are meant to do

231
00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:22,440
is they set down the basic rules
by which we govern.

232
00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:27,080
'The convention
had lawyers arguing on either side,'

233
00:11:27,199 --> 00:11:29,199
philosophers arguing on either side.

234
00:11:29,319 --> 00:11:33,080
'But then, crucially,
they also allowed in activist groups

235
00:11:33,199 --> 00:11:35,040
'and people with lived experience.'

236
00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,959
They found two fantastic young
people to come in and speak.

237
00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,279
Unlike other families,
we don't have the legal protection

238
00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,239
of being a fully recognised family.

239
00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,160
What this means in reality is that I
only have a legal relationship

240
00:11:47,279 --> 00:11:48,879
to my mum who gave birth to me,

241
00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,040
and my other mum, Bernadette,

242
00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,279
is a stranger to me in the eyes of
the law.

243
00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,800
'I remember particularly
the children who had gay parents'

244
00:11:55,919 --> 00:11:58,680
speaking about the experience of
being children in

245
00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,040
those relationships

246
00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,000
and what it would mean to have
marriage.

247
00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:04,400
That was very powerful.

248
00:12:04,519 --> 00:12:07,000
Most importantly for me,
marriage equality would mean

249
00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,040
that no one could ever tell us
that we aren't a family.

250
00:12:11,199 --> 00:12:13,800
'You had the power of the stories
of the sons and daughters

251
00:12:13,919 --> 00:12:15,800
'of LGBT families'

252
00:12:15,919 --> 00:12:20,080
who told their story, demonstrating
the values that they were given

253
00:12:20,199 --> 00:12:22,839
that was no different to many
members of the Convention

254
00:12:22,879 --> 00:12:24,199
from all parts of Ireland.

255
00:12:24,319 --> 00:12:26,239
And I think that was
another pivotal moment.

256
00:12:27,239 --> 00:12:31,040
To allow for civil marriage
for same-sex couples...

257
00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:34,360
79% vote "Yes"...

258
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,360
(APPLAUSE)

259
00:12:39,319 --> 00:12:42,040
How significant
was the strength of the vote

260
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:43,919
at the Constitutional Convention
for this?

261
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,720
Oh, very. I mean, look, it opened
the door in the sense of, you know,

262
00:12:47,839 --> 00:12:51,319
giving a message to the politicians:
"We're so in favour of this."

263
00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,120
We accept in principle the
recommendations

264
00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,360
of the Constitutional Convention

265
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,279
and we'll be setting out to deal
with those before the end of 2015.

266
00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:05,239
A lot of attention is paid to the
theatre of the Dáil and the Seanad

267
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,120
to the big speeches.

268
00:13:07,239 --> 00:13:11,000
Where a lot of the real work gets
done is in the committees,

269
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:15,400
it's in the collaborative work
that goes on behind the scenes.

270
00:13:15,519 --> 00:13:20,040
You build alliances, not just within
your own political family,

271
00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,680
but across the political families.

272
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:24,120
That can be very important.

273
00:13:24,239 --> 00:13:27,480
It was a unique moment where both
politics,

274
00:13:27,519 --> 00:13:30,120
NGO, Constitutional Convention

275
00:13:30,239 --> 00:13:33,199
came together around making a
difference,

276
00:13:33,319 --> 00:13:36,839
and it turned out to be,
you know, absolutely joyous.

277
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,800
COLIN: Tell me about the moment
when you realised it was done.

278
00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,559
Take me to that day in May in 2015.
Yes.

279
00:13:54,680 --> 00:13:56,199
Dublin Castle.
Yes.

280
00:13:56,319 --> 00:13:59,680
For me, there's two feelings, Colin.

281
00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:01,559
One is, of course, extraordinary
joy.

282
00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:05,199
I'm feeling emotional from the top
all the way down to my toes!

283
00:14:05,319 --> 00:14:06,400
All of a sudden it happened,

284
00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,360
and it felt like it was everyone's
success.

285
00:14:09,959 --> 00:14:11,519
Everyone's success.

286
00:14:11,639 --> 00:14:13,160
COLM: 'This celebration was a
celebration

287
00:14:13,279 --> 00:14:15,040
'that was for all of us
and about all of us.

288
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,480
'And it was... It was joyful.

289
00:14:17,599 --> 00:14:19,519
'And it was joyful
because it was so joyful.'

290
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,639
It was joy squared.

291
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,120
I can wear this ring as a symbol

292
00:14:26,239 --> 00:14:28,519
of the love I have for my husband,
as a married man.

293
00:14:28,639 --> 00:14:30,720
And that's because of the Irish
people.

294
00:14:30,839 --> 00:14:35,080
'Seeing people dancing in the
streets and celebrating'

295
00:14:35,199 --> 00:14:36,839
an electoral moment?

296
00:14:36,959 --> 00:14:38,400
Like, it was powerful!

297
00:14:38,959 --> 00:14:40,879
KATHERINE: 'The second set of
feelings

298
00:14:40,919 --> 00:14:43,199
was mixed for me and Ann Louise.

299
00:14:43,319 --> 00:14:44,919
'She wasn't feeling very well.'

300
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:46,879
She had had her first brain
haemorrhage

301
00:14:46,919 --> 00:14:48,879
a couple of years previous to that.

302
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:53,040
She was really in a lot of pain
as we were greeting everyone.

303
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,480
I think she was able to do that,
though, Colin,

304
00:14:55,599 --> 00:14:59,080
because again, it was just the joy
that was lifting her up.

305
00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,120
So when are you getting married?
4th August, next year.

306
00:15:13,239 --> 00:15:15,519
So, just under a year now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

307
00:15:15,639 --> 00:15:18,279
You're both going to wear dresses?
Yes! We are, yes.

308
00:15:24,599 --> 00:15:26,160
COLIN: 'Within weeks of that day in
May

309
00:15:26,199 --> 00:15:28,919
in 2015, Rachel and Marion were
engaged.

310
00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:31,919
'And they got married the next year.'

311
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,160
I give you this ring...

312
00:15:34,279 --> 00:15:37,279
I give you this ring...
As a token of my love.

313
00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:38,400
As a token of my love.

314
00:15:38,519 --> 00:15:41,639
I now pronounce you married.
You may now kiss your wife.

315
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:43,839
(GUESTS CHEER, APPLAUD)

316
00:15:45,959 --> 00:15:47,599
RACHEL: It was a magic day.

317
00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,400
I never in a million years
would have imagined,

318
00:15:50,519 --> 00:15:53,160
first of all, I would find happiness
and get married,

319
00:15:53,279 --> 00:15:55,760
let alone that it would be with a
woman

320
00:15:55,879 --> 00:15:58,440
and that my Nana and Granddad
would be there,

321
00:15:58,559 --> 00:16:00,199
who were just so thrilled for us.

322
00:16:00,959 --> 00:16:03,440
It was very special and very normal.

323
00:16:03,559 --> 00:16:05,959
Yeah.
And, you know, just nice.

324
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,360
We did everything that...
Everything.

325
00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:11,400
RACHEL: Yeah, other than it not
being in a church,

326
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,440
it was, yeah, very traditional.

327
00:16:13,559 --> 00:16:16,279
The way we wanted it, I think.
Yeah.

328
00:16:18,639 --> 00:16:21,400
MAN: (ON MIC) Today, an amazing
girl...

329
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,279
..married... an amazing girl.

330
00:16:26,279 --> 00:16:28,800
If we think back a year and a half
ago,

331
00:16:28,839 --> 00:16:31,559
that just didn't seem
possible.

332
00:16:33,519 --> 00:16:37,040
COLIN: 'Rachel's father, Enda,
remains a huge part of her life.

333
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,199
'When he spoke from a campaign stage
in 2015,

334
00:16:41,319 --> 00:16:43,519
'his testimony helped change minds.'

335
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,239
Enda, just tell us why you are
sitting on this stage today.

336
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:48,959
About five years ago,

337
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,760
Rachel came out to myself and my
wife.

338
00:16:53,239 --> 00:16:54,919
'It was a very harrowing evening.

339
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,800
'Not from the point of view
that Rachel is gay.'

340
00:16:57,919 --> 00:16:59,800
What I found harrowing about it was

341
00:16:59,839 --> 00:17:02,360
how upset Rachel was when she told
us.

342
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:04,760
'She was crying uncontrollably.'

343
00:17:05,239 --> 00:17:09,800
If that was how Rachel felt, how are
other people out there feeling

344
00:17:09,919 --> 00:17:15,040
that don't have a parent
that would be so understandable

345
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,720
or amenable to what she's about to
impart?

346
00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:19,000
Yeah. God, I haven't...

347
00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,879
I don't think I've seen that since
he said it the first time.

348
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,599
I'm gonna start crying already.

349
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,040
It was so upsetting. I really felt I
was letting them down.

350
00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:30,000
And... it's just bizarre to think

351
00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,120
that I could have even felt like
that at that time.

352
00:17:32,239 --> 00:17:34,680
I'd just made it
this big, huge deal in my head.

353
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,120
It was just, in my world,
there was no gay women,

354
00:17:38,239 --> 00:17:41,040
there was nobody I could talk to
or...

355
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,800
no kind of representation of who I
was.

356
00:17:43,919 --> 00:17:46,199
Marion grew up in Donegal, you know,

357
00:17:46,319 --> 00:17:49,400
in a kind of slightly more
conservative setting than I did.

358
00:17:49,519 --> 00:17:51,879
Yeah, you're very isolated up there.
Well, you were back then.

359
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:56,000
I mean, we're talking mid-'90s,
when I was in my teenage years.

360
00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:57,919
You wouldn't have any support
network

361
00:17:57,959 --> 00:17:59,000
behind you in terms of a gay
community.

362
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:00,239
It's just non-existent.

363
00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:03,319
So, take me from the referendum then.

364
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,400
Does it feel any different in Ireland
as a gay couple?

365
00:18:06,519 --> 00:18:09,160
We don't think about it ever,
I don't think.

366
00:18:09,279 --> 00:18:11,760
About how, you know,
people feel here or there.

367
00:18:11,879 --> 00:18:13,879
We've never been anywhere that we
felt

368
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,480
we stand out
or that we didn't want to stand out.

369
00:18:16,599 --> 00:18:18,519
The only thing that we notice,

370
00:18:18,639 --> 00:18:23,319
in terms of any kind of change in
attitude, is just online comments,

371
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,800
but you don't see it in day-to-day
life.

372
00:18:25,919 --> 00:18:27,480
So, does that mean we should ignore
it,

373
00:18:27,519 --> 00:18:29,080
or that there's something real there?

374
00:18:29,199 --> 00:18:30,760
I think there's something real
there.

375
00:18:30,879 --> 00:18:33,800
I think there's a very dark side
of the internet kind of creeping in.

376
00:18:33,919 --> 00:18:38,120
Like even, I think it was last week,
there was an Independent article

377
00:18:38,239 --> 00:18:42,080
and the headline was
that children in 5th and 6th class

378
00:18:42,199 --> 00:18:43,919
will be taught about sexual
orientation.

379
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,519
It was quite early
in the article being posted.

380
00:18:46,639 --> 00:18:48,239
There was maybe 20 comments.

381
00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:51,559
Every one of them was horrified.

382
00:18:52,199 --> 00:18:56,319
You know, "Can't we just let
our children be children?"

383
00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,519
They're not going in there
trying to indoctrinate the children.

384
00:18:59,639 --> 00:19:01,760
It's just they're taught that people
like me and Marion

385
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:02,839
exist in the world. Like,

386
00:19:02,879 --> 00:19:05,959
you know, what harm is that, you
know?

387
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:10,959
Think back to when you were
in 5th or 6th class, so 11 or 12.

388
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,239
Can you imagine
if a teacher had come in and said,

389
00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:17,160
"Look at this couple in this picture.
It's two women."

390
00:19:17,279 --> 00:19:20,120
Well, because I knew
from when I was very young.

391
00:19:20,239 --> 00:19:22,440
I think I knew
from when I was about ten or 11.

392
00:19:22,559 --> 00:19:27,160
It definitely would have helped
with... I think so. I think so.

393
00:19:27,279 --> 00:19:31,000
..those feelings
or the kind of level of acceptance.

394
00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:32,480
Coming out for me back then,

395
00:19:32,519 --> 00:19:34,160
the thought of being able to get
married

396
00:19:34,279 --> 00:19:37,360
and just live a normal life
was just nowhere in my head.

397
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:40,599
I didn't think I would ever get
married.

398
00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:49,319
ENDA: When your child finds true
love,

399
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,080
parents find true happiness.

400
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:58,040
Every single one of you saw today,
when they walked into that room,

401
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,879
love walked into that room.

402
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,879
GUEST: Ya-hoo!

403
00:20:17,599 --> 00:20:19,000
(GULLS CALLING, WAVES LAPPING)

404
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,600
(ACOUSTIC GUITAR PLAYS AN INTRO)

405
00:20:27,439 --> 00:20:30,600
I'm so pissed from feeling so bad
for so many years

406
00:20:30,719 --> 00:20:33,679
and just hating myself
in such a massive way.

407
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,920
# Why are you not like the other
boys?

408
00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:39,520
# Kick a ball, kiss a girl,
rob a car

409
00:20:40,479 --> 00:20:42,840
# Why are you not
like the other boys...? #

410
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,079
I knew I was gay for a very long
time

411
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,479
and never opened my mouth, ever.

412
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:47,880
# Down in the Dove,

413
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,679
# My local social hub
Where the bouncers all know me... #

414
00:20:50,799 --> 00:20:54,039
COLIN: 'For Steven,
after moving from rural Ireland,

415
00:20:54,159 --> 00:20:58,039
'music became a way of processing his
past and celebrating his identity.'

416
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,280
# Ooh, I'm really feeling this

417
00:21:01,399 --> 00:21:03,880
# Oh, really?
Oh, do you? What you play?

418
00:21:04,679 --> 00:21:07,640
# Ooh, I'm really feeling this... #

419
00:21:07,759 --> 00:21:11,439
Ten years ago,
you went to a campaign event

420
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,479
and you sang a couple of songs
and you said a few words.

421
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,039
Yeah.
And Charlie Bird was there.

422
00:21:17,159 --> 00:21:21,359
And something really struck him
about you or what you said.

423
00:21:21,479 --> 00:21:23,079
Everyone was giving their speeches,

424
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,159
but everyone there was clearly
voting yes

425
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:26,759
and was there to support their
friends.

426
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,520
I was like, "Hmm, OK, I'm going to
be a little bit more dramatic."

427
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,119
So, before I sang my song,
I kind of said a few words.

428
00:21:34,719 --> 00:21:36,880
The gist was, "There are kids out
there

429
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:38,520
that are thinking of committing
suicide.

430
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,520
"I was one of them. I was 14.

431
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,640
"We gotta get this through.
Here's a song."

432
00:21:42,759 --> 00:21:45,119
In his interview with you,
you come to that at the end

433
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:46,719
and he actually breaks off,

434
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,679
he gets so upset, and I remember him
telling me about that.

435
00:21:49,799 --> 00:21:51,600
I didn't eat.

436
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,159
I kind of hurt myself that way.

437
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,280
I started to drink and I started
hurting myself that way.

438
00:21:57,399 --> 00:22:00,200
And there was one occasion where I
was standing on my window ledge

439
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,840
just like only two flights up,
going, "There's a step there.

440
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,240
"If I flip properly, I'll crack my
neck."

441
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,719
But why were you thinking like that?
I didn't see a way out.

442
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:13,079
Those stories were such a key part
of that referendum

443
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,359
but, in another sense,

444
00:22:15,399 --> 00:22:19,159
people like you should never have to
tell those stories.

445
00:22:19,759 --> 00:22:21,039
In a sense, yes.

446
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:26,600
But so much of growing up
and coming out

447
00:22:26,719 --> 00:22:29,000
and navigating my life

448
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,920
has been constantly educating
straight people around me

449
00:22:33,039 --> 00:22:37,880
as to why I feel these things, why I
act this way, why I talk this way.

450
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,920
And they have so many questions,
so I was always answering them.

451
00:22:42,039 --> 00:22:44,840
Like, that's how you teach people -

452
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,520
through conversation and telling
stories.

453
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:48,920
And when you tell your story,

454
00:22:49,039 --> 00:22:52,200
that's when you can really change
people's minds and their hearts.

455
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,039
I ask these as a straight person
asking you to tell me your story!

456
00:22:55,159 --> 00:22:56,560
(LAUGHING) Yeah!

457
00:22:56,679 --> 00:22:58,039
But isn't that the point?

458
00:22:58,079 --> 00:22:59,759
There hasn't been a lot of these
stories being told.

459
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:01,880
CHARLIE: Did you campaign, knock on
doors?

460
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,320
I knocked on doors for one day,

461
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:04,479
got so upset I couldn't do it any
more.

462
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:05,679
Why did you get upset?

463
00:23:05,799 --> 00:23:09,399
You know, people said to me, when
the vote came through,

464
00:23:09,439 --> 00:23:10,600
"Isn't this great?"

465
00:23:10,719 --> 00:23:13,560
One million two hundred thousand
people voted "Yes".

466
00:23:13,679 --> 00:23:15,399
That's not the figure that bothered
me.

467
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,719
If I do a gig and there's 100 people
in the room applauding,

468
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,320
saying, "This is a class show.
Good job."

469
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:20,759
And one guy shouts up, "Faggot!"

470
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:22,799
That's the only person I'm going to
think about

471
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,399
for the next two months.

472
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,600
The first time I went to a door
and it was a case of, "No!"

473
00:23:28,759 --> 00:23:30,679
I just got so upset,
I went, "Can't do this."

474
00:23:30,799 --> 00:23:33,240
I got so angry. I just had to
like...

475
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,920
"I'm doing more harm than good here,
honey."

476
00:23:36,039 --> 00:23:38,640
I was not a very good representation

477
00:23:38,679 --> 00:23:40,840
of a stable queer person at the
time.

478
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:42,920
What did you get angry at?

479
00:23:43,039 --> 00:23:44,880
Just the gall!

480
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,880
The absolute audacity that someone
would actually look at me

481
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,119
and be like, "You don't deserve the
same rights as me."

482
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:54,240
But the campaign took
a very conscious decision

483
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,000
that they, as a campaign

484
00:23:56,039 --> 00:23:57,920
and as a community, were not going to
get angry.

485
00:23:58,039 --> 00:24:00,880
And they weren't going to play dirty
and they were going to be...

486
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,439
I was not the face of that.

487
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,399
It didn't feel right
for me to have that persona.

488
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,719
Because a lot of the marriage
referendum,

489
00:24:09,759 --> 00:24:11,799
it felt like we were asking
permission.

490
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,200
Do you resent still
that that was what happened?

491
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,799
I'm over it now.
I'm over it now.

492
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,960
OK.
I'm not over it. (LAUGHTER)

493
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:22,240
Like, look, I am over it.

494
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,119
But I'm a very different person
to who I was ten years ago.

495
00:24:29,479 --> 00:24:33,079
Do you think many of the community
carry scars from that?

496
00:24:33,759 --> 00:24:36,000
I think a lot of people do.

497
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:40,640
# A million mothers told me lately
they never want to see me marry

498
00:24:40,759 --> 00:24:43,359
# Mormons warned me,
tried to turn me

499
00:24:43,399 --> 00:24:45,399
# Told me just to pray it all away

500
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,479
# Back in the closet,
that's where it should stay... #

501
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,399
You know, in part, you play these
songs

502
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,679
that you've written
about formative moments in your life.

503
00:24:54,799 --> 00:24:57,600
So, in one sense,
you're reliving things all the time.

504
00:24:57,719 --> 00:25:00,439
A song is very different to a story.

505
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,119
# Just keep me safe
from all unsighted harm

506
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,520
# Families first,
so get your guns and arms

507
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,320
# Don't ask, don't tell
I'll rise no alarm #

508
00:25:08,439 --> 00:25:10,200
You can disconnect yourself from a
song

509
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:11,280
because you can go to that moment

510
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,560
and the song ends and it goes away.

511
00:25:13,679 --> 00:25:16,119
You sing a sad song, you can be a
little bit sad afterwards,

512
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:17,920
but the next song could be happy.

513
00:25:18,679 --> 00:25:20,240
So, the song ends.

514
00:25:26,399 --> 00:25:30,399
COLIN: 'What Charlie was struck by,
and what he wanted to capture,

515
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,399
'was how the campaign
was being fuelled

516
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,799
'by the power of personal stories
such as Steven's.

517
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,920
'But not everyone was quite ready to
tell theirs publicly.'

518
00:25:41,479 --> 00:25:44,920
So, every place I've gone -
to Galway, to Ballinasloe.

519
00:25:45,039 --> 00:25:47,439
The story about it in Ballinasloe
is just so fantastic.

520
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,960
There was this 74-year-old farmer

521
00:25:50,079 --> 00:25:52,079
and he wanted to speak.

522
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,880
He said that how living in
Ballinasloe 30, 40 years ago

523
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,399
and being gay,
it was very difficult to come out,

524
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,640
but in the last few years,
how his whole life has changed.

525
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,320
'Brendan took the risk
of sharing his story with Charlie.

526
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,280
'But then he grew scared
and asked Charlie not to publish it.'

527
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,679
CHARLIE: You say you came out,
what exactly does that mean?

528
00:26:23,679 --> 00:26:26,960
Well, it was coming down on the bus
from Dublin,

529
00:26:27,079 --> 00:26:30,679
and I just said...
I was thinking to myself, like.

530
00:26:30,799 --> 00:26:33,000
I said, God, I said, that's an idea.

531
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:37,079
I said, I might as well come out now
with the "Yes" campaign on the move

532
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:38,600
and all of this around the country,

533
00:26:38,719 --> 00:26:41,039
people might understand.

534
00:26:41,159 --> 00:26:43,799
But they didn't understand, I'm
afraid.

535
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,640
I had dreadful trouble
with a couple of very close friends.

536
00:26:47,759 --> 00:26:50,200
One was my brother.

537
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,119
I've had a lot of trouble with him
even since.

538
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,640
"What's the thing I hear you're on
about being gay. This big secret!"

539
00:26:56,759 --> 00:27:00,159
I thought we were best friends,
but it's far from that.

540
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:05,119
Oh, that's exactly it. And he passed
away two years ago now.

541
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,640
But I don't think he ever understood
what being gay was.

542
00:27:09,759 --> 00:27:11,520
Did you reconcile with him later?

543
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,119
We did, sure, but it was never much.

544
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,399
It was never as good as before.

545
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,520
Had you spoken to anyone

546
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,880
about your personal history like that
before?

547
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:22,359
No, no.

548
00:27:22,479 --> 00:27:27,000
I didn't, because when I was growing
up in Ireland, like,

549
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,679
really, well, there was guys gay, of
course,

550
00:27:29,719 --> 00:27:31,759
but nobody could reveal it, like.

551
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:36,439
This is the book that Charlie
produced when he did the interviews.

552
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,320
Oh, Lord God, yeah, indeed.
That's the one I pulled out of.

553
00:27:39,439 --> 00:27:41,840
You did an interview with Charlie,
but you're not in the book.

554
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:43,039
I got cold feet.

555
00:27:43,159 --> 00:27:46,719
Because I know,
when I was writing the play,

556
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,039
he said that you were worried
about being identified.

557
00:27:50,159 --> 00:27:52,679
I felt uneasy.

558
00:27:52,719 --> 00:27:56,079
I still wasn't confident in being
gay, if you know what I mean.

559
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,520
And then my brother, he would have
been part of that, like.

560
00:28:02,399 --> 00:28:06,399
Where I said that I was gay
and he attacked me, like.

561
00:28:14,039 --> 00:28:16,079
CHARLIE: You said
that you never found love.

562
00:28:16,799 --> 00:28:20,439
No, no.
Oh, no, indeed I didn't.

563
00:28:22,079 --> 00:28:24,560
It's an awful lonely place to be,
you know, like,

564
00:28:24,679 --> 00:28:28,000
so I never met anyone over all them
years.

565
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,840
But sure the "Yes" vote changed
all that for me, like.

566
00:28:32,159 --> 00:28:35,640
It was a massive vote
to give people the confidence, like.

567
00:28:35,759 --> 00:28:40,119
To help you, well, not to be afraid
any more, let's say.

568
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:45,240
It's easier now.

569
00:28:45,359 --> 00:28:49,039
But I do go on all over the country,
like, try and meet lads.

570
00:28:49,759 --> 00:28:51,640
It sounds like you made up for lost
time.

571
00:28:51,759 --> 00:28:55,079
I have! I'll meet some of them, I
definitely will.

572
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,359
Because I'm a bit low on
testosterone, you see.

573
00:28:59,479 --> 00:29:01,439
So, I'm...
Doesn't sound like it.

574
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,200
(laughs) Well, I could do it a bit
more, like!

575
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:06,880
And...

576
00:29:08,359 --> 00:29:12,799
Like, I went from meeting just one
or two guys in my life...

577
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,600
(LAUGHING) ..to meeting all these!

578
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,719
COLIN: 'In order to disguise
Brendan's identity in the play,

579
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,600
'we call the character Victor.'

580
00:29:24,719 --> 00:29:27,359
BRENDAN: We were going up the stairs
into the social club,

581
00:29:27,479 --> 00:29:30,159
the billiards club
or snooker club at the time,

582
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,439
and he put his hand there on me.

583
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,520
Well, he just done that.

584
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,119
I thought it was odd, but I
didn't...

585
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:41,719
I didn't dislike it.

586
00:29:42,759 --> 00:29:44,880
I felt good from it,
to be honest with you.

587
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,640
To be so vulnerable
and put yourself out there.

588
00:29:47,759 --> 00:29:51,520
His voice
is bringing inspiration to us, like,

589
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,560
to have the whole dramatic arc
of the play,

590
00:29:54,679 --> 00:29:56,119
and then as we come back to Victor,

591
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,399
his form of story happens
and he goes to NUIG

592
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,159
and he looks
at all these people in their 20s

593
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,200
being free and expressing themselves

594
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,119
in a way that only he wish he could
have.

595
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:08,799
I find it beautiful, but also,

596
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:10,479
obviously, tragically sad at the
same time

597
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,679
because he's obviously missed out
on all of that of his life.

598
00:30:13,799 --> 00:30:18,840
I'm free... from being a prisoner
in my mind for those years.

599
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,640
Even though I lived life,

600
00:30:20,679 --> 00:30:23,280
but I didn't live the life I could
have lived.

601
00:30:23,759 --> 00:30:25,560
But, you see, I am very happy now.

602
00:30:25,679 --> 00:30:29,840
Well, to be talking to you here
today is massive altogether.

603
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,399
Well, it is though.

604
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,240
When I got your call here recently,
it was just unbelievable, like.

605
00:30:35,359 --> 00:30:37,320
I was thrilled to bits!

606
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:48,079
My story is the one that I would
like future LGBT people to have

607
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,200
because it was so normal.

608
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,679
I didn't have the pain
that other people had

609
00:30:52,799 --> 00:30:55,359
where they have to sit down and
their parents haven't got a clue.

610
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:57,840
For me, they always knew,

611
00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,880
and I knew they knew and I didn't
have to say it.

612
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,320
COLIN: 'Adam was just 17
when he shared his story.

613
00:31:05,359 --> 00:31:07,880
'And one particular detail
jumped out at Charlie.

614
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,520
'Adam had brought a boy to his Debs.'

615
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,840
That's you there ten years ago.
Oh, my God. I can't believe.

616
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,679
It wasn't as if
they always thought I was straight

617
00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:20,679
and then suddenly
I'm bringing a guy to my Debs.

618
00:31:20,799 --> 00:31:23,159
It was that they knew full well.

619
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,240
But even if they didn't,
I still probably would have.

620
00:31:25,359 --> 00:31:27,200
Because I know we got so many looks,

621
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,759
but it wasn't in a "Jesus Christ"
kind of way.

622
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:31,520
People were genuinely interested in

623
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,799
the fact that I had brought a boy.

624
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,079
CHARLIE: I presume you were the only
one to bring a boy, were you?

625
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:38,200
Yeah.

626
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,359
Is that a big moment for you,
looking back now?

627
00:31:40,479 --> 00:31:44,520
I think it was, yeah,
because I think it was quite brazen.

628
00:31:44,759 --> 00:31:47,280
But I was nicely poised to

629
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,479
actually feel like that was always
an option.

630
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:50,840
Mam was never going to have a
problem,

631
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:52,880
none of my family were ever going
to have a problem with it.

632
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,960
So, it was more just like brace
yourself for any kind of dickery

633
00:31:58,079 --> 00:32:01,359
that might go on as a result of you
making that decision.

634
00:32:01,479 --> 00:32:03,600
CHARLIE: 'We're sitting in rural
Ireland.

635
00:32:03,719 --> 00:32:06,000
'We're sitting in Roscommon,

636
00:32:06,119 --> 00:32:08,200
'the county that voted "No",
and here you are,

637
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:13,520
'you have a 17-year-old son
who is actually remarkable.

638
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,119
'I just spoke to him,
he's just amazing, the way he talks.

639
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:22,280
'He brings a fella to his Debs,
you know, in rural Ireland.

640
00:32:22,399 --> 00:32:24,119
'That's quite...'
'I know.

641
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,640
'That's quite cool.'
'That's quite cool.'

642
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,039
Joan, the Ireland
that you and I grew up in...

643
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,439
..was a very homophobic place.
Very.

644
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,679
Was it a scary thing when you started
to think that you had a gay son?

645
00:32:40,799 --> 00:32:46,399
It was very scary. I would never,
ever have put my feelings onto Adam.

646
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:50,640
From the moment I realised -
I think I may have known, actually,

647
00:32:50,759 --> 00:32:54,359
before Adam knew himself
about his sexuality -

648
00:32:54,479 --> 00:32:57,240
the one thing I was always
very conscious of

649
00:32:57,359 --> 00:33:02,280
was I will never do or say anything
to Adam

650
00:33:02,399 --> 00:33:06,640
that would make him question
his sexuality in a negative light.

651
00:33:07,399 --> 00:33:09,759
I let him be himself.

652
00:33:10,359 --> 00:33:12,119
'I don't know where he got hold of a
doll,

653
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:16,280
'but he used to love feeling
the hair on the doll.

654
00:33:16,399 --> 00:33:20,560
'I think that's his creativity.
I'm not doing anything to...'

655
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,200
Adam, do you remember that?

656
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,840
Yeah. I mean, it just...

657
00:33:27,039 --> 00:33:28,600
..was what I wanted.

658
00:33:28,719 --> 00:33:31,280
I just never was given a complex
about it.

659
00:33:31,399 --> 00:33:34,520
I was never told
I was going down the wrong route.

660
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,240
And if I was told that, it was

661
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,600
by people that weren't my family, so
I didn't care.

662
00:33:38,719 --> 00:33:41,200
It's very crucial to the
conversation,

663
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,960
the context of I was very, very
gay. (LAUGHTER)

664
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,640
Like, so you'd be a fool
if you were trying to deny it.

665
00:33:49,759 --> 00:33:51,399
JOAN: He came out when he was 15,

666
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,079
and when I knew Charlie was coming,

667
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:59,399
all I could think of was how proud I
was.

668
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,520
How proud I still am.

669
00:34:05,759 --> 00:34:09,240
COLIN: Ten years on, where are you?
ADAM: I'm a drag artist.

670
00:34:09,359 --> 00:34:13,840
I have a collective that I do drag
gigs with quite regularly

671
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:15,640
called the Haus of Wig.

672
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,799
It is a laugh,
but I also take it very seriously

673
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,119
and I'm proud and happy
to take it very seriously

674
00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:26,560
because I've never felt artistic
fulfilment like it in my life.

675
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:31,640
It's been incredibly good for me

676
00:34:31,759 --> 00:34:34,600
to reconcile with the parts that
had been

677
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,640
under scrutiny when I was in
school.

678
00:34:37,399 --> 00:34:39,079
You know, a sniff of femininity

679
00:34:39,119 --> 00:34:41,039
and you're not going to get away
with much now.

680
00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:45,479
That does stuff to your brain
that it's hard to rewire.

681
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,520
Drag has been like a saviour
in being able to do that.

682
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:51,719
And it's cheaper than therapy.

683
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,399
(laughing) Well, actually not
cheaper than therapy!

684
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,399
Delighted to have each
and every one of you here...

685
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,600
'But it's very, very, very
rewarding,

686
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,359
'and it's been a great source of

687
00:35:02,399 --> 00:35:04,840
further community bonds and ties as
well,

688
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,640
'which is also very healing.'

689
00:35:10,479 --> 00:35:12,679
Are we excited
for a drag show of your dreams?

690
00:35:12,799 --> 00:35:13,880
(CHEERS)

691
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,960
'The place it's taken in my life
is really precious.

692
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,880
'In terms of my queer journey and

693
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,479
how I feel like it's brought me so
much power.'

694
00:35:23,079 --> 00:35:25,119
(MUSIC OVER SPEECH)

695
00:35:27,679 --> 00:35:29,840
'When I'm performing,

696
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:34,759
'it's an opportunity to, like,
push my self-expression

697
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,200
'and my understanding of myself
to the absolute maximum

698
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:42,479
'and maybe feel things that I don't
feel on a day-to-day basis.'

699
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,079
JOAN: 'As a mother, I was just...'

700
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,520
in awe of his confidence and his
talent.

701
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,759
Any show that I have ever been at,

702
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,679
the venue is filled
with love and acceptance.

703
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,119
And everybody is so beautiful,
they're so lovely.

704
00:36:05,240 --> 00:36:07,439
COLIN: Do you enjoy it?
JOAN: I love it.

705
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:14,079
All your adult life
has been post-referendum.

706
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:15,280
You were 17 at the time of the
referendum.

707
00:36:15,399 --> 00:36:17,280
Do you remember it
as a significant moment,

708
00:36:17,399 --> 00:36:19,359
or is it something that you think
you just take for granted?

709
00:36:19,479 --> 00:36:23,000
Looking back, I don't think
I really understood the impact.

710
00:36:23,119 --> 00:36:24,560
You know, you compare that to other
people

711
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,399
and it's like, this was finally
being seen

712
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,479
by the government and the country
itself.

713
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,479
Whereas to me, it was like

714
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,600
"Isn't that brilliant? Isn't this
great?"

715
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,840
And it's like, "Oh, but it wasn't
for a very long time."

716
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,280
It doesn't matter
if you're equal on paper,

717
00:36:39,399 --> 00:36:42,759
like, it's the lived experience
of the people around you.

718
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,359
The shrapnel is just still there,
like, for a lot of people.

719
00:36:48,079 --> 00:36:49,880
But looking back now, I'm like...

720
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,200
how fortunate I feel
to have had that upbringing,

721
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:59,920
because most people in the queer
community just don't have that.

722
00:37:00,039 --> 00:37:03,280
The most important tool
that you can give a child

723
00:37:03,399 --> 00:37:06,759
is for that child
to be able to come to you

724
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:08,759
and tell you anything.

725
00:37:09,240 --> 00:37:13,759
That's what I hope that I've given
you. Well, it worked! (LAUGHTER)

726
00:37:13,799 --> 00:37:14,960
Would you like him to get married?

727
00:37:15,079 --> 00:37:17,439
Oh, yeah!

728
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,799
Any pressure on you?
No, it's been...

729
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,079
It's been talked about.

730
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:28,359
It'll happen. You'll get your
moment. I would love nothing more.

731
00:37:28,479 --> 00:37:34,079
Even thinking about it
just brings a huge smile to my face.

732
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,520
It's just the joy of it.

733
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,039
COLIN: 'Joy is a constant refrain
when people recall the referendum.

734
00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:51,319
'But it's much less present
when they talk about today.'

735
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:54,959
How have things changed since 2015?

736
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:58,840
Oh... Oh!

737
00:37:58,959 --> 00:38:03,319
There's an increased amount of...
I'm going to say hate.

738
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,999
The negative attitudes
towards trans people.

739
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,480
That affects everybody.

740
00:38:11,599 --> 00:38:14,240
For me, it brings that fear back
again.

741
00:38:14,359 --> 00:38:17,920
We now have "the trans issue"
being presented as if it's an issue

742
00:38:18,039 --> 00:38:19,760
and not a question of

743
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,319
a small minority of people whose
rights are at risk.

744
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,359
Again, we have people's existence,
people's dignity,

745
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,999
people's inherent humanity
being put up for debate

746
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,160
in the most callous,
offhand, disrespectful ways.

747
00:38:34,279 --> 00:38:36,719
It's really upsetting
to see what's happening

748
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,279
within the European Parliament now.

749
00:38:38,399 --> 00:38:41,120
The rhetoric is really offensive.

750
00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:44,359
They're throwing out those slurs
that we've heard years ago,

751
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:49,679
you know, associating homosexuality
with paedophilia and perversion,

752
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,760
about family values,
very much anti-transgender,

753
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:58,359
hosting events within the Parliament
buildings about anti-transgender.

754
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,200
It's a really toxic environment.

755
00:39:00,319 --> 00:39:01,760
That's why it's more important than
ever

756
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:03,959
that those of us who find that
offensive

757
00:39:04,079 --> 00:39:06,840
and deeply worrying stand up and be
allies

758
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,240
for our LGBTQ+ brothers and
sisters.

759
00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:14,120
COLIN: 'In the years since the
referendum,

760
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:18,079
'trans rights has emerged
as a new frontier in the culture war.

761
00:39:19,679 --> 00:39:23,319
'But away from the toxicity
of the media and online debate,

762
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,240
'trans people like Caroline

763
00:39:25,279 --> 00:39:28,480
face huge hardship and trauma in
their daily lives.'

764
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,160
I talked to my family and my
mother... What did they say?

765
00:39:33,279 --> 00:39:35,279
My mother turned around and she
says,

766
00:39:35,399 --> 00:39:37,399
"You're worse than a paedophile."

767
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,240
That's what her term was to me.

768
00:39:39,359 --> 00:39:41,160
My father started sending me letters

769
00:39:41,279 --> 00:39:43,079
that he was going
to beat me up and down the town.

770
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,599
He was going to come up
and drive the window in on top of me

771
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:47,520
with a cement block.

772
00:39:47,639 --> 00:39:49,279
I was so scared to go outside the
house.

773
00:39:49,399 --> 00:39:51,480
I couldn't go for about three weeks
outside the house with them

774
00:39:51,599 --> 00:39:52,959
because I was afraid of my life

775
00:39:52,999 --> 00:39:54,440
in case they were going to come
after me

776
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:56,359
or they were in wait for me.

777
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,039
But I eventually got the courage
to go to the Gardai.

778
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:00,679
They read the letter
that my father had written

779
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,480
and said they'd never seen
a threat letter like it.

780
00:40:03,599 --> 00:40:05,800
He kind of... He threatened to kill
me.

781
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,120
That's extraordinarily traumatic.
That must still be raw.

782
00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:10,719
Yeah. That memory's always there,
it'll always be there.

783
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,760
It's just I can manage it better
now. I can store it away.

784
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:16,560
I have a bit more strength in myself
in that regard.

785
00:40:16,679 --> 00:40:18,200
A bit more wisdom, ten years later.

786
00:40:18,319 --> 00:40:20,840
Yeah.
Wasn't easy, though.

787
00:40:20,959 --> 00:40:23,240
I wouldn't like to see anybody,
and I mean anybody,

788
00:40:23,359 --> 00:40:24,920
go through what I went through.

789
00:40:25,039 --> 00:40:28,039
When I came out, my family who I
thought I knew for 30-odd years,

790
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:29,480
within a few minutes telling of
them,

791
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,639
I found out I never really knew them
at all.

792
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,480
And that reality was pretty bad.

793
00:40:34,599 --> 00:40:36,120
Like, I still love my parents.

794
00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:38,480
I hope all my family do well
in their life,

795
00:40:38,599 --> 00:40:40,959
but I just won't be talking to them
again

796
00:40:41,079 --> 00:40:43,440
from what I went through myself
with rejection.

797
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:44,560
Wow.

798
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,679
COLIN: You came out 12 years ago,
you moved immediately to Limerick?

799
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,679
CAROLINE: Yeah, my friend rescued me
and brought me down to Limerick.

800
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:54,840
I had to leave one night
really late in a taxi.

801
00:40:54,959 --> 00:40:57,079
I had to duck my head
in case someone spotted me.

802
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:58,679
I was in that much of a fear.

803
00:41:02,639 --> 00:41:06,840
When I came here, it took about
seven years of proper therapy

804
00:41:06,959 --> 00:41:09,200
to get me over the feelings of
betrayal.

805
00:41:09,319 --> 00:41:12,760
I don't want to feel betrayed any
more from where I was,

806
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,079
so I have kind of grown in that
regard.

807
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,039
Tell me what network you have here.

808
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,440
We have an organisation called
GOSHH.

809
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,520
I've gone to them for a number of
years for counselling

810
00:41:22,639 --> 00:41:25,079
and they've really helped me
through a lot.

811
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,719
They've been so supportive and good
to me and a lot of other people.

812
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:31,200
I think the more support that's out
there

813
00:41:31,240 --> 00:41:32,959
for transgender people, the better.

814
00:41:33,079 --> 00:41:35,880
To me, I have the body of...
I was born in a male body,

815
00:41:35,999 --> 00:41:37,599
but I've got the feelings and the
soul,

816
00:41:37,639 --> 00:41:39,440
a female soul, inside of myself.

817
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:44,520
But now I'm on hormone replacement
therapy to rectify that situation.

818
00:41:44,639 --> 00:41:48,039
CHARLIE: Do you see, at some stage,
you having surgery?

819
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,520
Yes, moving towards
doing that all the time,

820
00:41:50,639 --> 00:41:52,719
and I'm very proud and I'm very
excited

821
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:53,920
about that when the time comes.

822
00:41:53,959 --> 00:41:55,319
Has how you think of it,

823
00:41:55,359 --> 00:41:58,359
how you think of yourself, has that
changed at all?

824
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:00,520
No, it's actually gone more deeper

825
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,920
of knowing I'm more on that road
now.

826
00:42:03,039 --> 00:42:05,719
I'm still on the road, but I'm
further down the road, you know?

827
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,200
And please God that there will be a
good ending to it

828
00:42:08,319 --> 00:42:10,480
when I can go and get the operation
done.

829
00:42:10,599 --> 00:42:12,399
Are you disappointed
that it hasn't happened yet?

830
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,560
I am, in a way,
but in another way, I'm not,

831
00:42:15,679 --> 00:42:17,719
because I'm kind of in my own way
living as who I am.

832
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:19,440
People treat me as who I truly am.

833
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:21,920
And that's where it comes back
to the identity part.

834
00:42:22,039 --> 00:42:24,480
I didn't come today dressed up
for the reason being

835
00:42:24,599 --> 00:42:27,599
I'm trying to show people on the
ground what it's like.

836
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:29,359
It's not all make-up and glamour.

837
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,120
There's a lot more seeds
that lies underneath

838
00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:34,840
and stuff with the hell
we can go through every day.

839
00:42:34,959 --> 00:42:37,359
People that don't have the money
for all these operations have this

840
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:39,440
and are trying to be continuous
every day

841
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:41,560
to try and be who they truly are.

842
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,200
COLIN: Where do you think we are now?

843
00:42:45,319 --> 00:42:47,520
CAROLINE: I think the acceptance
of people,

844
00:42:47,639 --> 00:42:49,840
I think it's becoming better on the
top.

845
00:42:49,959 --> 00:42:55,039
What lies underneath, unfortunately,
it takes time to regulate all that.

846
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,840
So, to stand here and say it's all
perfect would be an absolute lie.

847
00:42:58,959 --> 00:43:01,599
A downside of the referendum ten
years ago

848
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:02,719
was that a lot of gay people found
it hard

849
00:43:04,639 --> 00:43:08,480
that their lives
and their rights were up for debate.

850
00:43:08,599 --> 00:43:13,079
Since then, or maybe since a year or
two after that, trans lives...

851
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,840
Yeah. ..have been constantly up for
debate.

852
00:43:15,959 --> 00:43:18,359
A lot.
What's that like for you?

853
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,319
If it's coming up with positivity,
it's grand,

854
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,679
but there's an awful spin of
negativity on it at the moment.

855
00:43:24,399 --> 00:43:25,999
They're saying, like, oh, we're not
women,

856
00:43:26,039 --> 00:43:27,399
or we're all messed up in the mind.

857
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:29,240
We're not. We know who we are.

858
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,840
Your family might see this
on the television.

859
00:43:33,959 --> 00:43:36,039
Is there anything
you'd like to say to them?

860
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,160
I would just love to say to my
family...

861
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:39,719
I love them with all my heart.

862
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:41,440
I truly love them.

863
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:43,880
I'm some bit healed from my past
now.

864
00:43:43,999 --> 00:43:45,599
I love them, I miss them.

865
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,399
They're not only my world,
they're my universe

866
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,520
and I would do anything for them,
and I mean that.

867
00:43:51,639 --> 00:43:54,079
I'm not sure if I'd ever talk to
them, but I don't know.

868
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,639
I have been welcomed with open arms
here in Limerick by people.

869
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,800
People here in Limerick,
my friends, are my family.

870
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,679
I'm 50 this year myself,
and do you know what?

871
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,639
I'm actually more happier now at 50
than I was at 20.

872
00:44:22,359 --> 00:44:24,959
You know,
I think now is the time for living.

873
00:44:26,359 --> 00:44:28,920
You're not lonely?
No, no, thank God.

874
00:44:29,039 --> 00:44:31,440
For years I was -
lonely and feeling alone.

875
00:44:34,399 --> 00:44:35,800
You know, it's a long road

876
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:37,719
and once you're able to be who you
truly are

877
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:38,840
and be accepted for who you are,

878
00:44:38,959 --> 00:44:40,399
that's what matters.

879
00:44:51,599 --> 00:44:54,240
PA: The train now standing at
Platform 5

880
00:44:54,279 --> 00:44:57,440
is the 1300h service to
Portlaoise...

881
00:45:11,399 --> 00:45:13,079
(COLIN LAUGHS)

882
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:14,920
Hi.
BRENDAN: How are you, Colin?

883
00:45:16,599 --> 00:45:19,880
We're now in the East Quad building.

884
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,679
How you feeling about tonight?
Oh, I'm looking forward to it.

885
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:26,719
I am. Well, it's great because

886
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,639
Charlie Bird like, you know, is the
first one that said to me, ever...

887
00:45:31,999 --> 00:45:34,240
Sorry, I get a bit emotional.

888
00:45:35,359 --> 00:45:36,920
Charlie said, "Would you be
interested

889
00:45:36,959 --> 00:45:39,480
in an interview with me?"
And he came to the house.

890
00:45:39,599 --> 00:45:43,160
But then when Charlie got sick, I
said to myself

891
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:44,639
"That's the end of that."

892
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,079
And, like, when you rang me then,
it was amazing.

893
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:52,240
It was amazing!

894
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,800
That's the kind of... the world
that hadn't stopped.

895
00:45:57,399 --> 00:45:59,039
I was awfully excited.

896
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:03,039
I swear.

897
00:46:07,039 --> 00:46:08,760
But, em...

898
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,920
But I'm happy.
I'm very happy to be here.

899
00:46:12,039 --> 00:46:14,840
(MUSIC OVER CONVERSATION)

900
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:23,639
Lovely place here, isn't it? Yeah,
it's great! Oh, it's gorgeous.

901
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,120
Now, you sit down there.
Oh, thanks, Colin.

902
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:41,880
There was a young fella one time
in the snooker club in Ballina.

903
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:43,920
Paddy.

904
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:48,639
Paddy and myself met a few times,
but we never had any...

905
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:51,399
What would you call it?

906
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:55,719
That was a long time ago.

907
00:47:03,319 --> 00:47:06,319
IVANA: We should never
take our gains for granted.

908
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:11,480
Just because we have recognised
marriage equality

909
00:47:11,599 --> 00:47:13,079
doesn't mean that there aren't
forces

910
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:14,480
there trying to push us backwards.

911
00:47:18,039 --> 00:47:19,480
COLIN: What's left to do?

912
00:47:19,599 --> 00:47:23,279
Full equality of LGBT families
and groups of people,

913
00:47:23,399 --> 00:47:25,880
and the issue of healthcare

914
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:27,760
for young - especially young - trans
people.

915
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:29,959
(SOMBRE MUSIC OVER SPEECH)

916
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:34,520
There will always be battles to be
fought

917
00:47:34,639 --> 00:47:36,480
and to be overcome
and people to bring along.

918
00:47:37,279 --> 00:47:40,039
There's going to be knocks along
the way, but if you keep that focus

919
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:41,240
and if you work with others,

920
00:47:41,279 --> 00:47:43,920
politics can still make a
difference.

921
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,319
HOLLY JEAN: The things that we did
to get to the "Yes" vote in 2015,

922
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:50,959
we still have that inside of us.

923
00:47:51,679 --> 00:47:53,840
It's important to look at
A Day in May

924
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,520
and see, like, the power that we
have.

925
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:59,480
And the power that we still have.

926
00:48:03,240 --> 00:48:05,719
After I decided to come out,

927
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,480
then I've seen the gay people
in the college.

928
00:48:08,599 --> 00:48:10,279
"Jesus!" I said.

929
00:48:10,399 --> 00:48:12,560
"I'd love to meet some of these!"

930
00:48:12,679 --> 00:48:14,959
Cause I never really met...

931
00:48:15,079 --> 00:48:18,079
Well, I didn't meet many more
than one gay person.

932
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:20,920
I was checking on the college
website

933
00:48:21,039 --> 00:48:23,560
and they said they were having a gay
bop.

934
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,760
And there's a couple of hundred
of them there.

935
00:48:30,999 --> 00:48:33,520
I never felt like this before.

936
00:48:46,279 --> 00:48:49,319
(APPLAUSE, CHEERS)